Points competition (Irregularities)

Juan Aneiros · 12th January 2003, 10:00 PM

While it is in the rules to donate points to other members, a 5-6000 points donation is totally out of order.

6000 points=about 30 reviews. 6 drawings or 4-5 quizzes.

Those in 3-10 positions have just been cheated out of winning. Think about it. You help a friend to get close to the lead and by doing so, you destroy others hard work.

Personally, whoever done that donation has absolutely no respect for other member's work.

12th January 2003, 10:27 PM

As I see it, I also think it is cheating. You can hide it and wrap it in rose petals and technicalities but it doesn't change the fact that it is. Points should be rewarded to people that truly put in the hard work. That is the whole point of the competitions. I could easily donate unlimited points to my buddies but I don't because it's against the spirit of the game. :(

What if I decide to donate 1.000.000 points to a new member? How fair would that be? And how many pms and emails protesting against it do you think I would receive? :angryfire

I guess there are always loopholes that people will try to exploit.

I'm not going to flip out as it isn't my competition and I'm not competing, but if I was, you can be certain that I would be pretty @%*&^! :furious:

Juan Aneiros · 13th January 2003, 03:40 AM

Quote:

What if I decide to donate 1.000.000 points to a new member? How fair would that be? And how many pms and emails protesting against it do you think I would receive?

None of those who have received the big mafia style donations stand a chance. That is exactly what we are going to do, play by their rules. That way, I don't upset miself.

If it fair for them, let's make it fair for everyone. But to make it more interesting, well do what we have to do at the very last minute.

**Matt Gemmell** · 13th January 2003, 06:12 PM

Thank's for mentioning this Juan . I'd noticed, what I thought were, a few anomolies but was'nt too sure about the system . I had been checking for new quizzes , articles etc etc and had wondered where all the points had been coming from .
I thought I'd missed a section or something . Thank's for making it clear .

**Alfonso Casal** · 13th January 2003, 08:48 PM

All this talk of

Jurious · 13th January 2003, 09:15 PM

I realise that this is a delicate issue, but I do have to say that Alfonso kindly donated me quite a substantial amount in the past - about 3000, if I recall rightly - and gave me a reason for his doing so, to which I was most obliged. If there is a valid reason for such a donation, isn't it more charity than cheating?

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been so charitable as to use the donation system myself, but haven't until recently been one of the fore-runners in the competition.

If the system has been abused, then I can understand the concern raised, but if it is all done fairly by members wishing others well, and members are giving because they feel another deserves the chance of winning, then I can see Alfonso's point. Unless one member is conspiring with many others to help him or her, then I don't think rules have been breached.

I do still see from where your concern arises, Juan. I have worked hard to get where I am, but so have many others, most harder than myself I'm sure, and I guess, if there are no rules broken, then that's life.

I mean, all I can say is that most people here are true and dedicated fans to Mr.Lee, and all they want to do is to have a go at winning this fantastic competition, to which, for organising, we are all in your debt, Juan. Thankyou for running it so well. And, I hope I'm correct in saying that no true fan would feel satisfied if they won this competition unfairly.

Juan Aneiros · 13th January 2003, 10:17 PM

Alfonso,

First of all, the irregularities were directed to the inconsiderate person who donated the money, not you. What right has that person have to force members in position 3-10 to submit 5000 worth of work just to catch up. You can call it what you like and say it is within the rules but it is dishonest, ugly and plain nasty.

Second, I am not throwing a temper tantrum merely answering concerns. It doesn't concern me personally as I don't care who wins but I would rather they do it with integrity and honesty. In private, I can discuss artificial fabrication of page views or deliberate spamming and picking on a particular member by disapproving all his/her posts in a revengeful manner but this is not a subject to discuss in private. Specially at this stage of the competition.

What if those member in positions 6-10 decided to donate all their points to the same member and that member won? What If I gave my 7000 at the last minute of the competition and asked Oscar to do the same and changed the course of the competition? Is that still honest and playing by the rules? Surely, you would be the first to complain and specially if you were not the one benefited.

Nothing of what you say makes sense, other that in this occasion you were the only member who benefited from this. All others, I don't care how hypocrite people make up to be, had been to put it in simple words "Cheated".

You say it's by the rules? Then, remind me that next time I make some rules and go through every single point and to assume immediately that members here are dishonest and I cover every single loophole. This is a matter or common sense and dignity not rules. 50 or 100 points is one thing, but 5000?

Forget about working hard for your points and winning deservedly, all you have to do is bribe members who don't stand a chance in winning to donate you their points. What's the point of writing 25 or 30 reviews when one single donation from your friend can make up for it.

This is playing by the rules, so then I will pick the winners personally at the last minute and cheat everyone from winning. I too can play by the rules and exploit loopholes. I will destroy people's hard work because honesty and dignity is not in the vocabulary of this site.

Oscar is right stating that he can donate 100.000 points, there is nothing in the rules that says otherwise. He has a button with unlimited funds which he can use to donate. There is no rules in writing that prevents him from using it.

I am glad you don't want to discuss this matter further because this is an embarrassment.

Juan Aneiros · 13th January 2003, 10:29 PM

Quote:

If the system has been abused, then I can understand the concern raised, but if it is all done fairly by members wishing others well, and members are giving because they feel another deserves the chance of winning,

One thing is to donate at the beginning when people have a chance and time of coming back and as an encouragment. At this stage of the competition a 5000 points donation is dishonest. It's plain friend helps friend to screw fellow member.

How would you feel if you were winning and on the last minute, someone donates all their money to the person in second position?

But hey, it's by the rules so expect a bigger cheating when the time comes and then those who don't complain now because they have been benefited shouldn't do so then. Would that be the case?

Doesn't anyone have any dignity here to go to the extreme of calling this fair?

**Patricia Smith** · 13th January 2003, 11:12 PM

This is amazing.

Admin: If I read you right, you are saying that it was inconsiderate of me to donate points to someone, since I have no chance to win this thing, and Iwanted to help a friend who had a better chance of doing so.

My donation was small- a mere 1256 points, NOT 5000. I haven't been a member of the forum long enough to accrue many, and, to be honest, I personally do not care for competitions. I felt that, since it appeared there was nothing in the rules saying I couldn't donate my points to Alfonso, I was happy to do so. If he wins, the man plans to take his MOTHER to meet Mr. Lee, a woman who has been nearly a lifelong fan, and has no hope of ever meeting him otherwise.

I certainly was NOT coerced into donating my points and would not have done any such thing! I am NOT a person who is easily coerced into anything.

Now, unless I'm wrong, Admin, you plan to decide the winner, regardless of who has the most points - even if Admin 2 decides, for example, to donate his points to, say, Ms. Jurious? I hardly would call THAT fair at all! If Admin2 donated his however many points to Jurious, and she didn't bribe him or anything, then SHE would deserve to win. Simple, I would think. Or whoever received them. However, since those points don't really exist, it looks like that is a moot issue.

My personal suggestion: next time you hold a contest, make all point donations over 1000 points illegal, and make it illegal to donate to the same person more than once. THAT would be fair, and THAT would close your loophole, IMO.

Anyway, may whoever win. I hope that whoever wins enjoys their stay and their visit with Mr. Lee.

Juan Aneiros · 13th January 2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Admin: If I read you right, you are saying that it was inconsiderate of me to donate points to someone, since I have no chance to win this thing, and Iwanted to help a friend who had a better chance of doing so

Hey, did I mention any names?

I don't know what the hell is wrong with some of you people here but I am sure fed up and appalled at this whole bloody situation.

Quote:

I personally do not care for competitions. I felt that, since it appeared there was nothing in the rules saying I couldn't donate my points to Alfonso, I was happy to do so.

There is nothing in the rules that doesn't say Oscar can give points out to whom he wants and that I cannot do the same, that does not make it honest. It's exactly the same thing even you see one to be OK and the other not. Anyway, we don't even have to fall as petty as that, we can work like dogs and donate our points.

Just do what you well bloody like and leave me out of this, I raised a genuine concern, gave an opinion and that's the end of it. In the future, I will not bother to organise anything with you people because you have demonstrated that you have absolutely no morals. It's not the first time that we have been let down but it will be the last.

I WILL do the same as some of you did just because it is in the rules, furthermore I will suggest that everyone does the same and then we will see how fair it was. In my opinion, this is so hypocritical and petty that I am not going to waste another second with it. That is what you want and you say there is nothing wrong with it, well I will tell you know that someone has lost because this "generosity" will be paid with the same coin.

Quote:

My personal suggestion: next time you hold a contest, make all point donations over 1000 points illegal, and make it illegal to donate to the same person more than once. THAT would be fair, and THAT would close your loophole, IMO.

Yes, and write down every single loohole that can be exploited because comon sense doesn't come into it.

It doesn't matter how many times you cover something, it doesn't matter what you write because you have a mass of members thinking up ways of destroying everything the moment you forget to include something. All it takes is one mistake and one member.

We'll go with it then, it's legal because you want it to be.

13th January 2003, 11:54 PM

At this late stage of the competition x number of members decide to donate their points to one person? Doesn

**Dave Hutchens** · 14th January 2003, 12:20 AM

Quote:

In the future, I will not bother to organise anything with you people because you have demonstrated that you have absolutely no morals.

Juan, the last thing I want is to get involved in such an ugly discussion, but I do feel compelled to say that that's a terribly harsh remark.

You've created something truly wonderful in this site...don't damage it by needlessly attacking some of your most loyal and participatory members.

Josslyn · 14th January 2003, 12:41 AM

Ever since the beginning I played the game by who I was going to give my money to. I never approached anyone about that and was never approached to "give" my points to anyone. When I donated (and it was to more than one individual) I chose who I felt was deserving. The ones I donated to were people heavily involved in the site. They didn't particularly NEED my money but I was not going to win nor was I going to try. While I would love to meet CL, I'm not the most deserving one here and I know that. I donated money to those I felt should get a shot at winning something they dearly want and have worked for.

Old Soul · 14th January 2003, 12:42 AM

Juan,

When you decided to end the competition early and Colin and Matt were ahead and someone tried to complain you started squawking that it was petty jealousy.

Now that Alfonso was in the lead it is

**Robert Longworth** · 14th January 2003, 01:14 AM

I'm kinda scared to get involved in this debate, but I'll throw in my two cents worth.

I do agree with both sides to some extent. The rules do allow to donate points to a person. But I myself always thought that if I was going to donate points it would be to people who didn't have many points, I assumed that's what that feature was for. Those who had lot's of points were doing pretty well in my opinion. Although that's no reason not to donate them any points.

I don't believe there was any plot to help get someone to the top. But I myself would like to see the top guys fight it out for themselves, rather then the forum users picking out a winner.