Star Wars...the Jedi sensory

**Brandon Jones** · 29th August 2002, 09:51 PM

Hey fellow-forum-friends,

I was thinking about this but I was wondering why can't the Jedi "sense" one another in these recent films?

Lucas has made little use of it. Why the Jedi cannot detect the dark side of Palpatine when they are around him is beyond me. And also, like for example when Mace Windu sneaks up behind Count Dooku in SW2, it's as if he really did sneak up on him. Shouldn't the Jedi be able to sense these things? Dooku should have also been able to sense Obi Wan while he was spying on him when he first arrived in Geonosis.

Tell me what you all think--some simply say, well the darkside clouds the mind...but surely SOME good Jedi must be able to sense these dark Jedi.

Brandi · 30th August 2002, 03:03 AM

I suspect it's because Lucas is a sloppy writer at best.

**Alfonso Casal** · 30th August 2002, 05:31 AM

If movie plots were logical 9/10 of the films we most love would never have been made. Good old 'suspension of disbelief.':D

Brandi · 30th August 2002, 09:05 AM

Oh, indubitably. I was being a bit cynical, but I'm afraid that Lucas never was the tightest writer when it came to plot holes-- and then figure that he's picking up the writing over two decades later...

Jurious · 30th August 2002, 11:17 AM

Well, being human (or a similarly sentient being ;)) you can't be alert all the time. I don't think even Jedi can do that.

**Brandon Jones** · 30th August 2002, 12:01 PM

Everyone seems to agree that perhaps Lucas just isn't the best writer on this one. I don't really consider myself a big Star Wars fan...I've seen all the movies at least 5 or 6 times, but I'm not a collector of anything. I would think someone that was involved in these films would've come up with this on their own. As many people as Lucas has working with him that is.

Hopefully you guys can indulge me. I am HOPING that in the 3rd episode to come, these things might be revealed. perhaps Lucas didn't forget about it...maybe the soon to be Emperor has a Jedi perception masking device! ha!

Jurious · 31st August 2002, 02:08 PM

The Emperor's skills at masking his true identity from the Force sensitive Jedi is just proof that the Jedi are not invincible. :D

**Robert Longworth** · 31st August 2002, 05:19 PM

Here are my ideas on all of this. Regarding the example of Dooku not sensing Mace Windu behind him. I think Dooku knew Mace was behind him but was under no threat at that moment. The thing is Sidious had stated that "things were going as planned", so Dooku was aware that the Clone Wars was going to begin and that this battle was the first step towards it. I think Dooku knew he had to let things play out, that's why he was in no rush to kill Obi Wan,Padme and Anakin.

Also on the point of the Jedi not being able to sense the Dark Lords near them. The jedi were never around Count Dooku for ten years until the battle on Geonosis and then once Yoda got close to him he stated that he sensed the dark side in him. The matter of Chancelor Palpatine I think is deeper. I'm still not sure if Palpatine is the actual Emperor.

Now this next part is just a theory of mine but if it is true it may be a spoiler so don't read the rest if you don't like spoilers.

Spoiler Space

I think Palpatine could be a Clone of Sidious. That way the Jedi would have no way of sensing the dark side. We will know what's going on for sure in Ep.3.

**Brandon Jones** · 31st August 2002, 07:15 PM

Oh wow...I sure hope Palpatine is NOT a clone of Sidious. That would be extremely lame, and in my eyes, lessen the quality of the Emperor's character from the original trilogy. Lucas better come up with something REAL good if he plans on that.

**Robert Longworth** · 1st September 2002, 08:32 AM

I dunno, I think it would be pretty cool. It wouldn't lesson the character of the emperor because Sidious isn't the clone he is the emporer from ROTJ. My theory (which of course this all is) is that Sidious is the puppet master using any means possible to give the Sith power. He needs to have others do his dirty work.

I find it funny that Lucas does everything to not associate the two people even in the credits. Every article about Sidious is pretty obscure about his background which leads me to my conclusion.

SithLord · 1st September 2002, 08:43 AM

Yoda said " the darkside clouds everything " and in Empire said that the future was difficult to see.....The Jedi wear no mask and therefore find it difficult to see through someone who is adept and skilled in the art of masking their feelings, they know something is going on, just not yet what it is, they have never lead us to believe that they are igonrant that trouble is afoot or that it is inherintly evil, but again they also have not tried to hide that they are indeed confused about what it may be or where its scource originates. I dont believe Palpatine is a clone of Sidious. It was established through the original films that Palpatine was the man who became the Emperor and that he did so through a shroud of treachery and deciet. A clue may be the suspicious almost glaring backward glance that Yoda gave Palpatine when he advised Padme in the Chancellory that he was so concerned for her saftey. I dont believe that there are that many inconsistencies.

But Hey, I may be wrong.....wife proves me wrong a million times within a five minute period.

Jurious · 1st September 2002, 02:54 PM

LOL - George usually manages to surprise with something in the new films. Yoda having trained Dooku, and Dooku having trained Jinn got me last time! :D

I think Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same - for one, the balcony Maul and Sidious walk along in Phantom is the same as the one out of the window in Palpatine's Senatorial quarters, where he talks to Amidala. Coincidence? Me thinks not... :P

I can't wait for Episode 3!

**Domenick Fraumeni** · 8th September 2002, 07:14 AM

Keep in mind that at one point, Mace Windu admits to Yoda that the Jedi's ability to use TheForce has possibly diminished. And in the novelisation of A New Hope, Mon Mothma even says that Palpatine was a superb actor, fooling everyone.

One skilled in the art of deception can fool even the most powerful of people. Look at Saruman in Tolkien's books. All those years Gandalf knew that Saruman was a bit jealous of him, but had no idea that he had been so corrupted until Saruman revealed himself.

Nilredwen · 10th September 2002, 04:56 AM

I've most enjoyed reading everyone's replies to this thread's insightful question. I would just like to input two things: one being that I actually liked Rob's idea of Palpatine being a clone! Very creative in my eyes though I must admit I don't think that's where Lucas is heading. But creativity should be applauded anyway. I wish I could come up with plot twists like that.

I also would like to agree with those who mentioned how the Jedi had diminished in those times and those who brought up that it's hard for good to even conceive of such heavy deception. A combination of these two points seems very believeable to me. Also, I always got the impression that there was this seesaw balance of power going on between the Sith and the Jedi: as the Jedi diminished the Sith seemed to grow more powerful. Of course, I have no real basis for this thought, it's just an impression I've had for a long time.

**Robert Longworth** · 10th September 2002, 06:50 AM

Quote:

I've most enjoyed reading everyone's replies to this thread's insightful question. I would just like to input two things: one being that I actually liked Rob's idea of Palpatine being a clone! Very creative in my eyes though I must admit I don't think that's where Lucas is heading. But creativity should be applauded anyway. I wish I could come up with plot twists like that.

Thanks, actually that idea came from a discussion my brother and myself had. We were just wondering why George Lucas didn't want to associate Palpatine and Sidous. In the Star Wars database on the official website they talk about how Palpatine becomes Emperor but they never link him to Sidous. The fact that at the end of the first two movies Ian McDiarmid is only listed as Palpatine and not Sidious. So all those things got our minds running. Of course we will not be suprised if our little idea is totally off base, but that's the fun of having to wait three more years.