Count Dooku and Comrade Lenin.

**Alfonso Casal** · 27th August 2002, 07:32 PM

The more I've seen Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones and have been able to put aside the special effects and technical wizardry, and have been able to concentrate my focus on performance and character development, the more my vision of who and what 'Count Dooku' is has altered. Certainly there has been much discussion on these boards as to whether or not Dooku is a 'villain.' But these discussions have left a subsidiary question unanswered: Ie. If he's not a villain, what is he? Here I'd like to suggest one possible interpretation.

Count Dooku is a revolutionary. He is the 'Lenin' of the Star Wars universe. He is a former Jedi Master, that is to say a member of the elite of this society, who has grown disgusted with the corruption and decay he sees around him. Lenin was born into an upper-middle class family. Not aristocratic, by any means. But certainly comfortable, by the standards of 19th century Tsarist society. But he turns against this life of privilege when his brother is executed by the Tsar.

Dooku decides that the Republic cannot be reformed and must be destroyed through violent action. To this end he creates The Clone Army. With similar reasoning, Lenin becomes a Marxist revolutionary and founds the Bolshevik Party.

However, here the analogy has to stop. Because, although we know what happened to the historical Lenin, Count Dooku's fate remains to be seen. Some might say that the analogy is invalid in that Dooku is clearly in the service of Palpatine. But is he really? Remember, Lenin (who was in Swiss exile in 1917) only made it back to Russia to lead the Revolution with the aid of the German Kaiser. The Germans thought they were using Lenin to create chaos in Russia; but history shows who was really using whom. Is Palpatine truly manipulating Dooku, or is it the other way around? Episode Three should tell us.

So, I've come to see Count Dooku, not as a "villain," but as a revolutionary with some analogies to be made with the historical Lenin. Like any revolutionary, he will be a "hero" to some and a "villain" to others.

But, then again, only George Lucas knows for sure. Any thoughts?

**Brandon Jones** · 27th August 2002, 10:14 PM

Wow. That was expertly put! Personally I feel that Dooku may end up being similar to the character of Saruman. Perhaps not so "evil" in action, but someone who HAD good motives, and strayed from the path. It remains to be see if Dooku is the pawn of Palpatine or vice versa. However, even though we already know the outcome (Palpatine evetually controlling the Empire), it sure will be awesome to see what kind of monkey wrench Dooku throws into his plans.

Jurious · 28th August 2002, 02:43 PM

For generations, the Sith have been plotting to overthrow the Jedi. It has come down to Sidious to implement all of these age-old plans and plots, and I don't think he's gonna be any fool in carrying out his plan - he's gonna be careful, and know when and when not to strike.

Now, taking an ex-Jedi under his wing could not have been a move ill-thought about by Sidious. As I've said before, he is the puppet master, and I reckon that, for the most part, he is controlling Dooku. He has him under his control. If he couldn't control him sufficiently, it would be dangerous having him as his apprentice. He must know that this apprentice will not jeopardise his plans.

Saying that, Dooku has been a Jedi Master, high in the ranks of the Order. He isn't willingly going to be the under dog for Sidious forever. He must have his own agenda in this, and probably thinks that he can use his position in the Sith to his own ends - perhaps even to become the Master when the time is right, and do as he will with the galaxy. I think that even in his own ambitions, Dooku will be fooled - Sidious knows what he's doing, and Dooku is another pawn - albeit a very important one - in his game of intergalactic domination. :sid:

Josslyn · 28th August 2002, 05:59 PM

Interesting political read, Alfonso.
I think of Dooku as a little more of a Trotsky character.
Maybe he's destined for the pickaxe on a quiet Thursday morning.
We'll know in about three years whenever George Lucas lets us. Until then. . . .

**Alfonso Casal** · 28th August 2002, 06:33 PM

Quote:

I think of Dooku as a little more of a Trotsky character.
Maybe he's destined for the pickaxe on a quiet Thursday morning.

Hmmm. . . you might just have something there, Josslyn. Dooku certainly has Trotsky's duplicitous, deceitful character. And may well meet a similar fate. A light ice pick, perhaps?

Josslyn · 28th August 2002, 07:48 PM

Dead on, Alfonso.
I was also thinking in terms of post-revolutionary history. Lenin is a big name in modern history whereas Trotsky (for better or not) isn't. Much like Engels in a way. Nine out of ten people don't realize that Communist Manifesto was co-authored. Karl Marx wrote it alone for all most people know. (As you know, similar allusions are endless in history.)
Dooku's actions (while they are likely pivitol) may get a little lost compared to the later actions (episodes 4-6) of the Emporer and Vader.

**Alfonso Casal** · 10th October 2002, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Dooku's actions (while they are likely pivitol) may get a little lost compared to the later actions (episodes 4-6) of the Emporer and Vader.

Pivotal might be the word. I think it's quite possible that Dooku, more than any other figure will be the one who sets in motion the sequence of events that ends in the establishment of the Imperial Regime. Again, like Lenin altering the course of history and causing wide ranging repercussions throught the world (galaxy.)

**Patricia Smith** · 11th October 2002, 12:57 AM

if there is more further on...

How far can we take your analogy, Alfonso? Or do we cross ourselves up, and mix up our analogies, in the end?

I mean, Dooku or Sidious one authorized that Clone army - ( not sure if Master Sifo-Dyas was Dooku in disguise or Sidious in disguis - could have been either of them), but Dooku WAS the person who hired Jango to be their template.
Who does Jango represent? The working class man who gets caught in the middle? I mean, Lucas does give him an interesting quote that, I think , may have been cut:

Quote:

I'm just a simple man, making my way through the universe.

Of course, he was a dangerous outlaw at heart, or at least an amoral outlaw - perhaps THAT was what made him so simple - as well as a perfect template for cloning - his mores or lack thereof had no basis in emotion? Difficult to say.
Who is he? The "alienated masses" so many speak of rhetorically?

What of the droid army, and the confederates of Dooku's Separatists - oh, they are probably the bourgeoise classes - upended by revolution.

So, what I want to know, is who is Luke Skywalker, and Leia, and Chewie, and Han? :P

And, I'm only half joking around - I LOVE this sort of analogy! :D

19th October 2002, 09:13 PM

Very interesting but.... you forget one thing... and I quote:

Yoda - "Once you turn to the Dark Side will forever dominate your destiny".
(It might not be an exact quote but very similar to that above).

and

http://christopherleeweb.com/forums/showth...=&threadid=2993

Read that and you'll see why I believe Dooku is a "villain" and will always be. I do believe he did start of as you say a "revolutionary" but once he joined the Dark Side, it consumed him and his idealism has somewhat been corrupted by the Dark Side.

**Alfonso Casal** · 25th October 2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

I do believe he did start of as you say a "revolutionary" but once he joined the Dark Side, it consumed him and his idealism has somewhat been corrupted by the Dark Side.

And there, to me, lies the tragedy of the character. One whose ideals at one time may have been pure and noble; but, by following expediency (ie. the Dark Side) has ended up becoming the opposite of wht he originally intended.

**Stacie Herman-Laurence** · 25th October 2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alfonso

Count Dooku is a revolutionary. He is the 'Lenin' of the Star Wars universe. He is a former Jedi Master, that is to say a member of the elite of this society, who has grown disgusted with the corruption and decay he sees around him. Lenin was born into an upper-middle class family. Not aristocratic, by any means. But certainly comfortable, by the standards of 19th century Tsarist society. But he turns against this life of privilege when his brother is executed by the Tsar.

Dooku is clearly in the service of Palpatine. But is he really?

Alfonso,

The comparison with Lenin on the economic side of things doesn't fit since the Count's background is one of substantial wealth. His background files state "His birthright as the Count of Serenno also afforded him incredible wealth, which he used in his political career as Separatist leader."

But that's neither here nor there...I'm interested in your statement that he's out for himself. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I got the feeling that Dooku was playing both sides against the middle to a certain extent. Does anyone really think that Sidious told Dooku that he was allowed to tell the Jedi of his existance? If Obi-Wan had said yes to Dooku's offer, I believe Dooku would have used him in a New York minute to get rid of Sidious and make himself Lord of the Sith.

**Patricia Smith** · 27th October 2002, 01:12 AM

Agreed Stacie. Dooku wants power above everything else. And I somehow doubt at this late stage of the game that he likes being second banana to ANYONE, including Siddy. I think that we shall see some interesting developments in Ep. III in this direction. After all, they are known as the Clone WARS , the emphasis placed on the plural. :D

Who is to say right now that GL won't have this next Clone War be a war between Clone Armies secretly controlled by rival Sith Lords? There is more to all of this than meets the eye... or less. After all, it is a glorified "B" movie. A VERY GOOD B movie, but a B movie. Actually few movies of ANY kind have the sort of plot complications that interest me for long anyway. Star Wars interests me because of all of them, the music makes it worthwhile.