Dooku or Saruman??

[Frederick Bergstrom]

I cant believe after all these years a Christopher lee role would take front and center of all my favorites from his past. I loved Dracula until i saw the wicker Man. then I loved his role in the wicker man until i saw Rasputin. I truly never thought i would see him in a movie thta made as much of an impact as Rasputin.. Boy was I wrong. In my opinion when all is said and done and CL decides its a career Count Dooku will be the role he will be remembered for. I cant believe how cool he was in this movie. Both Obi Wan and Darth Vader get beat badly at his hands, all at once. This will be athe role that defines his career and he was 80 when it came out!!I am not a huge star Wars fan, not at all, but he carried this movie and his scenes and precensce are what makes it a cool film. The fight with Yoda the two titans...WOW.I can not wait until episode 3. I feels so justified with all the Dooku stuff i was buying just cause it was Cl.not seeing the movie and knowing how Dooku would rate with the other roles Count Dooku is the best and coolest role yet and as a long time fan i really cant believe i just said that...Ok what does everyone else think . The 2 biggest roles of his career have come out in the past year what do the members of this site think, the REAL CL fans, ....who is the fav of the 2 ..Dooku or Saruman. If you could only pick one role of the two to see again which one would it be.? I cant wait to se epidode 2 again his role was awesome. I think its just a matter of time befor his fav of the last few years Jinnah will get its just reward.I dont mean to ramble and be gitty..but lets think of this...some kid in idaho is playing in his sandbox with his Christopher Lee toy and talking in his best deep powerful accent and kicking major Jedi Butt...that to me is the coolest thing of this whole scenario. kids born so far after Hammer who have no idea about Dracula are gonna see his face and say....Dooku. Its the guy who played Dooku!!Dracula? really ,when did he do that ?? sorry about the raving but i just got back from the movie no vote for your fave!! ...Dooku or Saruman

[Charles Prepolec]

This (Dooku) will be athe role that defines his career and he was 80 when it came out!!

Really? You mean more than 250 other roles in a career spanning more than 5 decades matter not one jot when compared to one stock villain role in a space opera? Granted the Star Wars franchise is a hugely popular space opera series, but it is just another sci-fi/fantasy film (not that these genres deserve any less credibility, they just aren't the be all and end all that fans have a tendency to make them out to be, and they have a tendency towards types or stereotypes rather than presenting any real depth of human experience ie. white hat vs. black hat) when all is said and done.

Is it the best performance Mr. Lee has ever given? Doubtful. I've watched him work his magic in some of the most thankless roles.

Did it stretch him as an actor? Aside from blue screen work, I'd say doubtful as well. For example, watch Mr. Lee in The Mummy, or in Jinnah, or hell, even as a gay biker in Serial, and tell me that those parts didn't stretch him more as an actor.

Did it provide the opportunity to shine as an actor? Well, admitedly yes, but juxtaposed against the lifeless performances given by the other actors populating the film, I'd say that isn't exactly a tall order either.

So what is it about the Dooku role that makes it seem any better than any other single performance in the body of work that Mr. Lee has produced up to this point? Quite frankly, I just don't get it. Sure, it's a cool role in a high profile film, but best or defining?

In my view Dooku is by no means a 'career defining' role, any more than Dracula was, but then again I'm not interested in defining Mr. Lee's lengthy and varied career by any one particular performance. I'm more interested in what it is about this skilled actor that allows for such longevity within an industry that has a remarkably short memory, and an even shorter attention span. Is there really anything better about being remembered (and God knows I find that term distasteful at best and downright morbid at worst) for the single role of a Dooku rather than a Dracula? Not hardly. No difference really. By reducing Mr. Lee's value as an actor to but one role, I'd say that many have simply exchanged one pigeonhole for another...

Whether it be Dracula, Dooku, or Saruman, these are but single elements that make up a much larger, and far more impressive, whole.


Cheers!

[Frederick Bergstrom]

Charles,
..In my opinion no matter how great his acting was in rasputin, Horror of Dracula, the mummy , curse of Frankenstien,the wicker Man, Three and four Muskateers, Man with the Golden Gun, Devil Rides Out ,LOTR , feast at midnight etc, etc ..this will be seen by so many people and be talked about for years to come by the star Wars fans (and i believe there is a few million out there)that people who have never seen these movies, as deprived as they are, will be talking about this role for years to come. I ,in no way will rate his acting performance near my personal fave of Rasputin but for years he has been only referred to by narrow minded people as Dracula and i feel with the new generations seeing this film THIS will be the one talked about and remebered for a long time. Of course he wasnt stretched as an actor, you and I ,and the other members who have followed him for years have seen him in better films and better roles. I love this man and always have , my fave as i said is Rasputin, he was awesome in that film deserving of any and all awards but i will never look back on his career when he decides to say enough and say that role defines his career of course it will be all the films like the great ones i have loved for so long listed above . People like you and I and the others on this site are here because of his body of work as a whole thats why if hes in it ..We See It!! I feel the film going community who have for so long defined his career as just Dracula will have this role to overtake it in their minds.

[Frederick Bergstrom]

looking back.... i should have used different wording when i said defines his career ....in no way did i mean to say it as it was taken ...obviouslly ,i agree 100% with you Charles.. it was not a stretch and his body of work speaks for itself... I meant it as a public perception mostly.

[David Vasser]

Sorry folks, this is going to be a long post.

Fred, I think you are right and Charles I believe you are correct also. I agree with you both, even though you seem to have been disagreeing with each other!

Why do I think Fred is correct? My own son, age 10 and one half years, has seen more Christopher Lee movies than I dare admit. My son says than he most closely associates Mr. Lee with Count Dooku instead of any other role including Saruman. He has seen Golden Gun, LOTR, Mummy, HOD, COF and others. Before you report me to the authorities for child endangerment, please understand that my son is wise beyond his years, reads on a very advanced level and shares my enthusiasm for good movies. Before going to see LOTR for the first of our five viewings, he had read the entire LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy including THE HOBBIT. Furthermore he understands them all! That is more than can be said for lots of "so-called" LOTR adult fans on this site who just can't be bothered with actually reading the books.

This alone could leads me to form the opinion that while the role of Count Dooku may not be defining, it certainly is pivotal. Further adding to the impact this role will have in the long run is the reaction of the critics. Only a tiny minority of movie critics have had any negative comment about Mr. Lee's Dooku portrayal whatsoever! Even those critics that hammered away relentlessly at everything else about the AOTC praised Mr. Lee's Dooku. "They LIKE him, they really like HIM" (Apologies to Sally Field, but I just couldn't resist).

But, how can Charles be correct too? Mr. Lee indeed has amassed a vast body of work in a plethora of films of all descriptions, books, television, musical recordings, spoken word recordings and on and on. It is a shame Charles, but as a journalist yourself I am sure you are aware that when it comes to any celebrity or public figure the media in general seems to focus in on one aspect of that individual's life or career, and then proceeds to beat that drum exclusively. To me, this is like the bartender who stands at the bar endlessly polishing the same glass. He is certainly tending the bar, but he's not really doing a very good job.

To illustrate what I mean, consider the U.S. presidency of Jimmy Carter who is one of the truly great American humanitarians of modern times. Thanks to the media however President Carter is remembered primarily for the disastrous U.S. Embassy takeover in Tehran. President Carter did many astoundingly wonderful things in his presidency and continues to do charitable and honorable deeds, but the image of those hostages being paraded blindfolded was too powerful to overcome. It made him appear to be a weak president, whether or not that was actually the case. One television network even went so far as to create a special nightly news program just to cover the hostage situation. Many Americans may not know, or may have forgotten, that ABC-TV's NIGHTLINE with Ted Koppel was created just to cover the hostage crisis! After the crisis was over, ABC continued the program because it was cheaper than creating a new show and nobody would beat NBC's THE TONIGHT SHOW anyway no matter how much they spent. The Camp David Peace Accord Agreement and the Nuclear Reduction Agreements with the Soviets, possibly President Carter's greatest accomplishments while in office, are sadly all but forgotten today.

Unfortunately Mr. Lee, like all public figures, is susceptible to this same fate. While the devoted fans who come to this site are all intimately aware of Mr. Lee's notable achievements, regrettably the ill informed masses primarily will only know what the media tells them, and will no doubt continue to tell them over and over again. Phrases like "horror legend", "veteran horror actor", "Dracula actor" and the similar expressions are how they always described Mr. Lee...until now. Phrases like "screen legend" and "mighty" are now being tossed around by the critics. That is refreshing!

In my opinion, if Dooku places Mr. Lee in a new light with the critics then the role will prove to be one of his most invaluable. However Dooku is not necessarily the best. I believe that "the best" is a subjective issue and everyone can have different opinions and all those opinions are valid.

We all have performances we really like to watch. But, why must I choose a favorite role? I don't want to choose. I like too many of them! As Fred mentioned, RASPUTIN was an extremely gripping and startlingly convincing performance. Also there's Lord Summerisle to consider, Saruman, then Dooku and then here comes Sarauman AGAIN and then comes Dooku AGAIN and then King Haggard in THE LAST UNICORN and then comes THE RIDING OF THE LADDIE role and then comes SARUMAN yet again! Could it not drive you insane trying to choose which is best? Can't I just enjoy them all? Can't I just enjoy the reality Mr. Lee brings to all his roles and delight in them without having to rate them all like an Olympic figure skating event and then compare my rating to someone else's rating?

While I'm begging, can't I just please see JINNAH? Please?

[Joakim Lundberg]

Brotherdave
Don't worry. We wont report you...well not yet. That's wonderful that your son loves to read Tolkien and understands it. It's wonderful to know that there are children who actually do more than sitting infront of the computer all day. Not that there's anything wrong with PC computer games. I played Super Nintendo alot when I was 10 and half years old. My kidbrother is eight and reads Harry Potter and is just nuts about them. Ok sorry for going of topic there. I hate making lists of movies that I like that Mr Lee is in. And I hate rating his performances because I can't make my mind up. I always end up going insane :D jumping back and forward and so on.

Some people haven't heard of Mr Lee at all( I've met some of them), with both Lord of The Rings and Episode 2 out at the same time, people will discover this wonderful man and his acting. They propable will go directly to the store and buy every film they see that he is in when they walk out of the cinema. And probably buy his autobiography too. I was at the video/dvd store recently and I saw a couple buy "The Wicker Man" (DVD) that came out on region 2. They probably have heard of Mr Lee before but who cares. They bought the best film ever on DVD and with the most legendary actor of all time. Will they see LOTR and Episode 2.........oh yes.....some day.:)

[noblerot]

Hi Fred,

I prefer Dooku to Saruman for the simple reason that long white hair is not a good look for CL. But Dooku positively thrilled me with his good looks, black cape and expertise with the light saber. My daughter tells me that all the other 5th graders think he's the coolest. Before the movie opened they had been calling him "Count Dorku" but they have since changed their tune.

[Brandon Jones]

Saruman is everything Christopher Lee's acting skills can convey all rolled into one. He's wisdom, cunning, ruthless, brooding, contempt, arrogant, elusive...all of those traits. I think that Dooku is still a great role, and he WAS the best part of Episode II. However...Star Wars didn't give Lee too much to work with. I think that if Mr. Lee does show up in Episode III then the role could have more impact. But Saruman is a major player in Lord of the Rings...and I think Mr. Lee looks the part, and not only that, but he truly is Saruman. I don't see Christopher Lee when I watch it...I see Saruman.

[Frederick Bergstrom]

Count Dorko??..Its funny how a childs perception, probally because he is an older man and may seem less threatening , can be changed by the strong commanding performance that he gives. I hope all kids will think hes the coolest after seeing his strong performance. I see little kids all over between LOTR and AOTC becoming like many of us ,devoted fans serarching his films out for years to come ....just like we all did when we first saw him on the screen so long ago

[Alfonso Casal]

I see little kids all over between LOTR and AOTC becoming like many of us ,devoted fans serarching his films out for years to come ....just like we all did when we first saw him on the screen so long  ago

I can't agree with you more, Fred. For me it's like it's 1969 again.

[Joakim Lundberg]

For me I still have the same excited feeling since 1989 when I saw my first CL film on tv when ever I go to the cinema.

[noblerot]

I see little kids all over between LOTR and AOTC becoming like many of us ,devoted fans serarching his films out for years to come ....just like we all did when we first saw him on the screen so long  ago

Since CL is now cool, I have been able to share a few of his movies with my daughter. Unfortunately, my collection is small and we've exhausted it already. But she's asking for more so I guess I better go shopping.

[Cara Randall]

Count Dorku!!!! Kids are too much!

I agree, the long white hair is not as good a look on CL, but he was massively impressive as Saruman. I just saw it this weekend, and the fight seen between him and Gandalf was fantastic! I found him precise and commanding as ever. Now I just have to see Count Dooku and see what I think. Frankly, I would not go see this movie if CL wasn't in it. I feel the Star Wars movies have burnt out a long time ago, and the acting is as stale as a moldy bagel. I don't think CL could be stale if he was TRYING to be, so he will be the sole reason for seeing AOTC.

Come to think of it, maybe I'll just wait and rent it...


Cara